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Old 02-15-07, 07:45 AM
Runner1 Runner1 is offline
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Price choice

Hi guys, i'm a beginner in a stock market and trying to learn the basics. Can you tell me what price do you choose when you order selling or buying and why? Appreciate any help.
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Old 02-15-07, 09:09 AM
aquaswim47 aquaswim47 is offline
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A general guide-line

I believe that if you are risk-adverse, you try to buy a company that you expect to have three times as much potential upside as downside within a one year period.

For example, if Teva could go to $45 and it could drop to $30, you would want it to be priced at $33.75 ($11.25 upside / $3.75 downside). You'd not be willing to buy it for more than $33.75 per share. If it's trading at $34, you put your limit order at $33.32 (2% below fair-value). If it's trading for $35, you put it on your watch list and hope it goes lower. If it goes above $36, you try to find another stock.

A risk-neutral investor might invest in a stock that has a 1.5 times upside to downside potential. This investor would have bought TEVA at $36 per share. There's $9 upside for $6 downside. Also, this type of investor might really like TXN at it's current price.

A trend risk investor might invest in a stock that has .2-.5 times upside to downside potential. This investor would buy TEVA in between $40 per share and $42.50 per share. This investor might not have invested at $33 per share, at $34 per share, at $35 per share, may have pulled the trigger at $36 per share (and would be beaming to the bank), and would probably like it at $38 per share. I'm not that type of investor; that's not my strategy. I don't like to follow herds; my philosophy is to take the path that is the least traveled (Henry David Thoreau). I like a stock with great fundamentals that has two or fewer analysts' coverage.

To evaluate potential upside and downside, you need to know how the market has reacted to news (and the company's financials along the way). A great stock is a company, like TEVA, that dropped 20% in value (due to a sector problem) and whose financials were excellent. You want the market to believe the stock is in misery even though it is flushed with cash and it is bringing in enough cash to finance its expansion. It has a cash ratio of 97.8% (that's cash and short-term investments/short-term liabilities). I tend to look more closely at companies with a cash + short-term investments/AP ratio of 0.9.

When should you invest in a stock whereby its price is higher? When nothing else in the industry will do. This is why JCP is such a great potential stock. It's a momentum play (as a retailer!!!!).

There are so many schools of thought since there are so many investments out there. I'll start with shorting because that is when you sell a stock with the hope of buying it back later for a lower price.

If you short a stock, you are interested in getting as much decline as possible. Because increases cause greater losses than decreases result in earnings, it is important to get the best bang for your buck. It will not matter much to a short if a stock falls 10% and then falls another 88% or falls 89.2%; the investor gives up a mere 1.2% for having been late on the short. For example, if Choice Hotels is purchased and the company goes bankrupt (or each investor gets a nickel per share for a chapter 11 bankruptcy), you would have effectively doubled your money regardless of where you bought it. It's so essential to have a stop-limit order on a short due to short-squeezes. There's no guarantee that your broker will allow you to buy it back at that price, but it should provide some protection in most cases. For example, if the Dow is up 400 points, you may not see your short position covered resulting in a much higher loss than the stop-limit order specified.

In regards to mutual funds or ETFs, sell it when the market (or sector) is at its highest point. If you have more than $10,000 in assets, be sure to sell in increments such that you get as close to the top as possible. Don't sell it when it's in the dumps (unless it appears the sector will never rebound!). The market will 90% of the time rebound in a timely manner.

In regards to individual stocks, you have to be more careful than market risk. For a stock, you may want to sell it if it drops to a certain point via a stop order (8%) or a trailing stop order (10%). You might want to sell it if the catalyst (an earnings report) resulted in either success or failure. You may want to sell it because the company (CHH) becomes insolvent (total assets is less than total liabilities) or it lacks liquidity (its cash/AP ratio drops below 0.9) and thus it is at risk of not having its inventory delivered. Lastly, you want to sell if you've had a lot of upside. Ring the register in small (10%) to medium-sized (25%) increments depending on the amount of upside and the amount of your investment holdings. Selling all of your assets is advisable if your position in the stock is $500 or less. It's not good to be a hog; bears make money (through puts, shorts, and bonds), bulls make money (through a long position, calls, and mutual funds), and hogs get slaughtered (like in the 2000 tech craze).

Last edited by aquaswim47; 02-21-07 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 02-17-07, 08:26 AM
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gijoe9 gijoe9 is offline
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Hello welcome to the FIO. Most all of the folks here will be eager to help you out with any questions you have. Now I see that you are new and I was wondering how much you have learned about the market already? As to your question like my friend said there are many factors that might effect the price range of a stock I may invest in. Generaly price is a secondary at best consideration unless you are investing small sums of money. When you have a lower amount to invest say $1000 or less then I would say the upper range would be say $25 others may think higher or lower than that.

The reason I say $25 max is due to fees when you buy and sell you pay fees or commissions. Say you bought 9 shares of IPS trading at around $100 a share right now the fees to buy are $7 and to sell would be $7 total of $14 or about $1.56 per share meaning the price has to go up $1.56 before I can break even. You get the picture there.

Within the range I set for price I then research the companies I like and pick one base on my investigation and analysis. Some people will swear by the leverage you gain by buying "penny" stocks and will not look at anything above $5 per share. I don't hold this view but I understand the reasoning. I follow fundamentals and not very many penny stocks will be attractive to me. I like big companies that pay dividends and look like they were built to last. I look to buy these big companies when they are out of favor (on sale) making me a value investor. I am going to buy and hold for long periods of time hoping to see a modest gain every year along with dividend $'s. Because of this I am less concerned with the actual price per share than the value per share.

I hope this helps you out if not try your question again and we will try to answer better.
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Old 02-20-07, 10:42 AM
Runner1 Runner1 is offline
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Wow, thank you guys for such a thorough replies. It really helps.

Perhaps you could also help me with this one: what is the price which serves as a guiding line to any given open? Is it a previous close price or some kind of average from previous day prices?
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Old 02-20-07, 11:53 AM
FirstConsul FirstConsul is offline
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Why don't stocks begin trading at their previous day's closing price?
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Old 02-20-07, 06:04 PM
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gijoe9 gijoe9 is offline
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The opening price is set the same way as the price is set at any other time "supply and demand" The opening price is merely the price of the first trade after opening. Although the previous close can be a guide to the price in theory, in reality anything could happen between the close and open that may effect the motivation of buyer and seller causing the stock to gap up or down. FNF closed at around $42 a few years back and opened the next day at around $33 and the market did not blink no uproar no indication of what was going on til you looked at them a bit and realised they just had a $10 per share special dividend.
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Old 02-20-07, 07:37 PM
investoid investoid is offline
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There are many schools of thought on how/when to buy/sell stocks. I come from a typical 'value' perspective, in that I believe that stocks have some intrinsic value and trade above or below that value. Now, this value can be very hard to measure.

There are several ways of doing so. I usually use a combination of discounted cash flows and price/earnings, book value, assets multiples. I typically create two (or more) scenarios for the future direction of the company, ranging from extremely pessimistic to optimistic. I derive current stock prices from these scenarios and then use the range as my trading range. In a two scenario model with equal probability (say with values of $10 and $20), I would use $12.50 and below as a buy target, and $17.50 and above as a sell target.

As I said, there are many ways and this is what I derived from working as an analyst in a real-money portfolio as a student in University.
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Old 02-21-07, 12:06 AM
aquaswim47 aquaswim47 is offline
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Hey

I think you should apply to work at GS; you seem to know what you're talking about. I use cash-flow from OA, price-to-earnings, Cash/AP, and Cash Ratio. I also use cash flow from IA (want consistency and want it to come from operations). I also like to see a stock that isn't overpriced.

Nathan

I have 15 shares of JNPR, 6 shares of GME, and 2 mutual funds.
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